Date: Mon, 1 Nov 93 04:30:02 PST
From: Advanced Amateur Radio Networking Group <tcp-group@ucsd.edu>
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Subject: TCP-Group Digest V93 #283
To: tcp-group-digest
TCP-Group Digest Mon, 1 Nov 93 Volume 93 : Issue 283
Today's Topics:
AMPR Gateways on Internet (3 msgs)
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Date: Sun, 31 Oct 1993 10:14:36 -0600 (CST)
From: Steve Sampson <ssampson@sabea-oc.af.mil>
Subject: AMPR Gateways on Internet
To: TCP-Group@UCSD.Edu
I think Ron alluded to the major problem in packet. I entered amateur radio
because of packet, and am just amazed at how personalities drive everything.
It's a psychological nightmare. In large cities you'll find oodles of
"network nodes" that don't go anywhere, and the rest of the state is void of
any routing nodes. It's almost funny the wars that occur on trying to get a
higher netrom routing value - "he's not one of us, we won't let him in."
First you must bow to the local packet Gods, and then maybe your node (that
goes nowhere too) will be allowed into the circle. "Network nodes" is pretty
much an oxymoron today.
I think there is probably only one way out of this. Something of a national
charter (even sponsored by the ARRL maybe) where goals are set and people
attracted to serving a national need, rather than their personal needs and ego.
Some big goals like linking capitals together with 10GHz links. Big goals that
enhance amateur radio need big money, and the only one I know who has deep
pockets is the ARRL. Charters are an excellent way to focus energies on the
goals wanted, and enhance teamwork. They also are very handy when you go to
the state or corporations and request tower space. Without any goals and places
to list them, we are just spinning our wheels making individual achievements.
I kind of suspect that not enough people will want to focus on goals like this,
and the ARRL will continue to find better ways to spend the money (CW contests,
wages, and lawyer fees).
---
On Behalf of the Congress of the United States
and the Legislatures of each State
A Charter is Established
to
The American Radio Relay League
Before this decade is out the American Radio Relay League will design,
implement, and maintain a data network joining each state capital city
with all others using radio. The purpose of these Capital Nodes will
be to form hubs whereby the spokes will interconnect to all major
population centers. The hubs and spokes will have a data rate at least
10 Mbps and be limited to the microwave bands. This network will be
capable of operating without commercial power for 8 days, so exercised
annually. The ARRL will issue exclusive frequency coordination rights.
The ARRL will be fined one dollar per member a day upon non-compliance
with any of this charter which will be given to each affected states
general fund.
---
This is the only reason I'd join the ARRL, as right now it doesn't
serve any purpose other than as a magazine publisher and Political
Action Committee (PAC). Just an idea. . .
---
Steve N5OWK
------------------------------
Date: Mon, 1 Nov 93 00:28 EST
From: glg@balrog.k8lt.ampr.org (Gary L. Grebus)
Subject: AMPR gateways on Internet
To: ssampson@sabea-oc.af.mil
>There are those who feel even stronger that NO wireline links are
>spiritually correct.
I don't understand why interesting experimentation and useful function
should be sacrificed to "spiritual correctness" (whatever that might be).
I probably don't need real-time communications. After all, we're
networking computers together, and they have plenty of patience.
But I would like to be able to mail a couple 100 KB of data to a
friend without getting hate mail from sysops, or experiment with
digital voice messaging. You could deploy a lot of network in a lot
of places with the resources you would spend building a reasonable
bandwidth link to Hawaii, or Australia. Not that someone should be
discouraged from it if they want the challenge.
>What this is all about is a cross between experimentation and
>enjoyment. This isn't serious business and can't support
>reliable communications. The conflict comes when some do want
>reliable communications...
No argument. If I want reliable communication, I expect to buy if
from a commercial supplier. But you seem to be arguing that if the
experimentation and enjoyment doesn't use exclusively amateur technology
it's not valid. Maybe we shouldn't allow wireline remote control of
repeaters either? Or commercial launch vehicles for those micro-sats
you mentioned?
>By inserting a wireline node into the system, no matter what the
>reason, you have decided that RF is not capable of meeting your
>needs and a crutch is needed to fill the gap. You could come up
>with the same reasoning for short hops. RF goes everywhere, I
>don't know of a place on earth that you can't radiate onto.
True, if you have unlimited dollars. But it hardly makes sense from
an engineering standpoint. Ham radio is a hobby, and resources are
hard enough to come by.
Probably the simplest point to take from all this is that hams, and
groups of hams will pursue what they find interesting and useful. But
don't expect *everyone* to agree on the most "appropriate" way to do
packet radio, anymore than you would expect them to agree on the most
"appropriate" use for 20 meters.
73,
/gary
K8LT
Gary L. Grebus, 16 North Mason Rd., Brookline, NH 03033-2452
Home: glg@k8lt.ampr.org (decvax!balrog!glg)
Work: grebus@isis1.enet.dec.com
Ham Packet: K8LT @ WA1PHY.MA
------------------------------
Date: Mon, 1 Nov 93 18:14:29 EST
From: dave@eram.esi.com.au (Dave Horsfall)
Subject: AMPR gateways on Internet
To: tcp-group@ucsd.edu
| >There are those who feel even stronger that NO wireline links are
| >spiritually correct.
| I don't understand why interesting experimentation and useful function
| should be sacrificed to "spiritual correctness" (whatever that might be).
Tell me about it... For some years, Optus/Aussat (the local satellite
service provider) have been providing voice and packet links between
capital cities in VK and ZL, for the annual JOTA. This is a great way
of getting kids exposed to Amateur Radio; we need these kids, as the
OldFarts slowly die out.
And the "spiritually correct" (love that term!) OldFarts complain that
it's not "real radio" (whatever that is) and we should not be doing it
at all.
When you have a bright-eyed kid looking at you, it's difficult to
explain that propagation does not permit talking anywhere...
-- Dave
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End of TCP-Group Digest V93 #283
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