Date: Sun, 17 Jan 93 04:30:16 PST
From: Advanced Amateur Radio Networking Group <tcp-group@ucsd.edu>
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Subject: TCP-Group Digest V93 #17
To: tcp-group-digest
TCP-Group Digest Sun, 17 Jan 93 Volume 93 : Issue 17
Today's Topics:
mids & bids ?? (6 msgs)
TIP etc.
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We trust that readers are intelligent enough to realize that all text
herein consists of personal comments and does not represent the official
policies or positions of any party. Your mileage may vary. So there.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Date: 16 Jan 1993 09:48:32 -0500 (EST)
From: "Brian A. Lantz" <BRIANLANTZ@delphi.com>
Subject: mids & bids ??
To: Steve_Wright@kcbbs.gen.nz
> Whats MIDs and BIDs got to do with TCP/IP (and tcp-group??) ...
Well, since NOS has to exist in the same digital network as machine using
that "outdated form of forwarding" (of which we are still just a small part,
unfortunately), and since it is a feature of NOS, and since this is where
NOS developers/hackers/enthusiasts gather and talk code, THIS IS THE RIGHT
PLACE!
While I would be the first to say that ALL FEATURES of NOS are important,
some of the most important features are not the most progressive or
powerful! NOS is NO GOOD if it can only talk to itself! Thus, "outdated
forms of forwarding" are an important part of NOS, thus tcp-group.
No flames, "just the fact".
73 from Brian A. Lantz KO4KS@KO4KS.#TPAFL.FL.USA.NA 3100813105
Internet: brianlantz@delphi.com
Amprnet: ko4ks@ko4ks.ampr.org [44.98.0.167]
------------------------------
Date: Sat, 16 Jan 93 12:35:34 EST
From: "Louis A. Mamakos" <louie@NI.umd.edu>
Subject: mids & bids ??
To: "Brian A. Lantz" <BRIANLANTZ@delphi.com>
> > Whats MIDs and BIDs got to do with TCP/IP (and tcp-group??) ...
>
> Well, since NOS has to exist in the same digital network as machine using
> that "outdated form of forwarding" (of which we are still just a small part,
> unfortunately), and since it is a feature of NOS, and since this is where
> NOS developers/hackers/enthusiasts gather and talk code, THIS IS THE RIGHT
> PLACE!
Ah, well, excuse me? This mailing list has been around since early
1987, before Phil's code had any AX.25 BBS stuff in it. Its charter
is (or at least at one time was) to discuss the use of the Internet
protocol suite in amateur radio. Only in the past few years has it
been infested with AX.25 BBS and DOS centered discussions.
> While I would be the first to say that ALL FEATURES of NOS are important,
> some of the most important features are not the most progressive or
> powerful! NOS is NO GOOD if it can only talk to itself! Thus, "outdated
> forms of forwarding" are an important part of NOS, thus tcp-group.
This is certainly a matter of opinion. I certainly don't consider all
features of NOS to be important, and judging by what's been picked up
by Phil for his baseline code, there's likely a few more of us. Many
folks have argued that the DOS environment is not the place to build
these higher-level user applications, and that NOS is a great box to
build an infrastructure with instead.
There are many of us that don't use, and want any part of, the AX.25
BBS network, which is yet another example of a ham radio
Not-Invented-Here "solution" to a problem that's already been solved.
Rather than just clone USENET news, software that did mail was warped
into a conferencing system. There are those that don't believe this
extra cruft is an important part of NOS.
NOS works Just Fine as a package to communicate using the Internet
protocols. Surprise! This is what it was written to do! How can you
claim that "NOS is NO GOOD if it can only talk to itself!" [This is
actually a true statement - its supposed to conform to the Internet
protocol standards, so it should be able to talk to other TCP/IP
stacks.]
If you care deeply about the BBS code, why don't you discuss it on the
NOS-BBS mailing list, rather than co-opting this group? I've trying
to ignore this raging, inappropriate discussion. But when someone is
flamed for perhaps suggesting that the discussion is inappropriate,
its time to re-examing just what this forum was created to be. It
wasn't created to be the "NOS support mailing list."
> No flames, "just the fact".
Indeed.
Phil - please excuse me if it seems I'm putting works in your mouth.
That's not my intent.
Louis A. Mamakos
WA3YMH
------------------------------
Date: Sat, 16 Jan 93 21:06:31 CST
From: jks@giskard.uthscsa.edu
Subject: mids & bids ??
To: tcp-group@ucsd.edu
There is a nos-bbs group specifically for the support of the NOS-BBS interface
that is centered around Johan's version of NOS and all "derivars" (TNOS). THAT
IS THE APPROPRIATE FORUM for NOS-BBS discussions..... contact barry@dgbt.doc.ca
for subscribe info please.... This is tcpip-group (not OS/NOS version holy war
city....)
"just the factoids!"
j.
*********************************************************************
* Dr. John Spitznagel * Sancho Panza Institute *
* Internet: jks@giskard.uthscsa.edu * for Advanced Studies *
* AMPRNet: kd4iz@kd4iz.ampr.org * Department of Bogometrics *
* CIS: 76044,476 * *
* Tel: (210) 567-6616 * (C) JKS, 1992 *
*********************************************************************
------------------------------
Date: 16 Jan 1993 20:09:40 -0500 (EST)
From: "Brian A. Lantz" <BRIANLANTZ@delphi.com>
Subject: mids & bids ??
To: louie@NI.umd.edu
1) I DIDN'T start this thread, just added my thoughts.
2) You own message proves that NOS is many things to many people. Just
because they don't agree with you doesn't make them wrong.
3) Where were my flames?
4) I SAW your flames!
5) When someone poses a question in this forum, I respond (if I feel the
need) in this forum. To suggest that I would respond to a message posted
here in another forum is interesting.
6) Since we saw a posting in the nos-bbs group yesterday that said that
Phil would be porting the JNOS BBS into the base line code, I think that
you MIGHT have been putting words into Phil's mouth.
73 from Brian A. Lantz KO4KS@KO4KS.#TPAFL.FL.USA.NA 3100813105
Internet: brianlantz@delphi.com
Amprnet: ko4ks@ko4ks.ampr.org [44.98.0.167]
------------------------------
Date: Sat, 16 Jan 93 21:31:54 -0800
From: brian (Brian Kantor)
Subject: mids & bids ??
To: tcp-group
I run this mailing list in the increasing-forlorn hope that it will be
used to advance the state of the art of ham radio networking, specifically
by the use of the internet protocols and other sophisticated techniques.
Making NOS compatable with the existing BBS network sure doesn't fit my
idea of what advanced networking is.
- Brian
------------------------------
Date: Sun, 17 Jan 93 01:20:46 EST
From: crompton@NADC.NAVY.MIL (D. Crompton)
Subject: mids & bids ??
To: jks@giskard.uthscsa.edu
I think one of the problems ( I am sure guilty of it) is that the
contents of these two groups are mixed. TCP stuf gets discussed on
NOS-BBS and BBS stuff gets discussed here. It is alittle difficult
to respond to someone on a different group even when the message
content was not appropriate for the current one.
I subscribe to both groups as I am sure many others do. Maybe we should
just make an effort to try to direct messages to the right group. This
is sometimes a very gray line, but given the definitions of the groups
as I have seen them discussed here, it would appear that at least 75%
and maybe more of what is on TCP-GROUP should be going to NOS-BBS.
My concern is that a good base of NOS/NET knowledgable folk are listening
to NOS-BBS???
The other problem is that TCP-GROUP is digested and sent all over the
amateur radio world. I get it here locally on AMPR via BBS connect and
I make it available via NNTP. Is the NOS-BBS group similiarly available?
Doug
------------------------------
Date: Sun, 17 Jan 93 01:05:59 EST
From: crompton@NADC.NAVY.MIL (D. Crompton)
Subject: TIP etc.
To: miltonm@inetnode.austin.ibm.com
>My first guess for this privliged command would be (for someone with sysop):
@
stop tip modem
[reset local tip session and start packets]
...
telnet [remoted]
start tip modem
login & logout...
reset...
(The only tricky part(s) would be any DTR/CTS off in the stop tip code).
>milton
An interesting approach, but kinda dangerous for general use. I will have
to look at the code and see how complicated this would be to impelement
via the BBS. It would be another BBS command that would allow changover
to SLIP if authorized and would return to TIP at disconnect, waiting for
the next call.
Johan - have you thought of this?
Doug
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End of TCP-Group Digest V93 #17
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