Date: Fri, 25 Feb 94 23:30:46 PST
From: Info-Hams Mailing List and Newsgroup <info-hams@ucsd.edu>
Errors-To: Info-Hams-Errors@UCSD.Edu
Reply-To: Info-Hams@UCSD.Edu
Precedence: Bulk
Subject: Info-Hams Digest V94 #210
To: Info-Hams
Info-Hams Digest Fri, 25 Feb 94 Volume 94 : Issue 210
Today's Topics:
"DIY"?
ARRL Repeater Directory
cannot access cs.buffalo.edu ftp
Electric Fence RFI
FT530 dtmf decoding
Low power Bird slugs
Money grabbing SOB's at STD.COM (was Re: ftp for files) (3 msgs)
Nude Hamfests
On-line Repeater Directory
online rpt idea
Send Replies or notes for publication to: <Info-Hams@UCSD.Edu>
Send subscription requests to: <Info-Hams-REQUEST@UCSD.Edu>
Problems you can't solve otherwise to brian@ucsd.edu.
Archives of past issues of the Info-Hams Digest are available
(by FTP only) from UCSD.Edu in directory "mailarchives/info-hams".
We trust that readers are intelligent enough to realize that all text
herein consists of personal comments and does not represent the official
policies or positions of any party. Your mileage may vary. So there.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Date: Thu, 24 Feb 1994 18:13:18 GMT
From: unogate!news.service.uci.edu!usc!howland.reston.ans.net!wupost!gumby!newsxfer.itd.umich.edu!sol.ctr.columbia.edu!news.kei.com!ub!newserve!sarah!rpi!psinntp!psinntp!arrl.org!@mvb.saic.com
Subject: "DIY"?
To: info-hams@ucsd.edu
Alan Bloom (alanb@sr.hp.com) wrote:
: Harland MacKenzie (harland@otter.mech.ubc.ca) wrote:
: : Does anybody have plans for a DIY audio notch filter ?
: ^^^
: I think I finally figured it out: DIY = "Do It Yourself" right?
: (Still decoding Usenet abbreviations)
No, it's "dipped in yogurt," as in: "Well, I'll be DIY!"
:-)
--
Jon Bloom KE3Z jbloom@arrl.org
------------------------------
Date: Fri, 25 Feb 1994 16:08:10 GMT
From: mvb.saic.com!unogate!news.service.uci.edu!usc!howland.reston.ans.net!europa.eng.gtefsd.com!library.ucla.edu!news.ucdavis.edu!chip.ucdavis.edu!ez006683@network.ucsd.edu
Subject: ARRL Repeater Directory
To: info-hams@ucsd.edu
My first question regarding this mess is:
Did you try to reconcile these problems with the league directly before
taking it to a public forum? If not I consider starting a derogatory
thread regarding the way the league has "handled" this very poor
etiquette. Imagine how everyone would have jumped all over those posting
to the recent Ramsey thread if they had not tried to contact and resolve
the problem with JOhn personally.
Tom Bruhns (tomb@lsid.hp.com) wrote:
: I'd be willing to post my submission to Conway, with all the info that
: hasn't been independently verified deleted. Any interest?
Since it has been generally agreed that if you are taking the information
directly out of the directory without permission and re-publishing it it
is a copyright infringement and you are stating that you have not
verified some of the data you submitted to Conway can we assume you gathered
these data from the ARRL directory?
Dan "I hope we get an on-line directory" Todd
--
*---------------------------------------------------------------------*
* Daniel D. Todd Packet: KC6UUD@KE6LW.#nocal.ca.usa *
* Internet: ddtodd@ucdavis.edu *
* Snail Mail: 1750 Hanover #102 *
* Davis CA 95616 *
*---------------------------------------------------------------------*
* All opinions expressed herein are completely ficticious any *
* resemblence to actual opinions of persons living or dead is *
* completely coincidental. *
*---------------------------------------------------------------------*
------------------------------
Date: Thu, 24 Feb 1994 18:11:19 GMT
From: unogate!news.service.uci.edu!usc!howland.reston.ans.net!wupost!gumby!newsxfer.itd.umich.edu!sol.ctr.columbia.edu!news.kei.com!ub!newserve!sarah!rpi!psinntp!psinntp!arrl.org!@mvb.saic.com
Subject: cannot access cs.buffalo.edu ftp
To: info-hams@ucsd.edu
Jerry Sy (ah301@yfn.ysu.edu) wrote:
: has cs.buffalo.edu anonymous ftp site stopped accepting anonymous
: logins ? It does not accept anonymous or ftp as user names
: anymore.
Try ftp.cs.buffalo.edu, since that's where all the goodies are.
--
Jon Bloom KE3Z jbloom@arrl.org
------------------------------
Date: 25 Feb 1994 14:55:36 GMT
From: solaris.cc.vt.edu!usenet@uunet.uu.net
Subject: Electric Fence RFI
To: info-hams@ucsd.edu
In <CLMqI7.Bvn@murdoch.acc.Virginia.EDU> clh6w@faraday.clas.Virginia.EDU
(Carole L. Hamilton) writes:
>I've got some bad interference on 80 through 10
>meter bands from an electric fence about 500
>feet away. The effect is very sharp clicks
>about 3-4 per second. Analog noise blanker
>works some but not 100%.
>Anyone have any cures?
I've had the same problem with a fence I installed. The noise
blanker on my old OMNI C cuts out the noise. I also found that
the fence is arcing when I hear the clicks. Sometimes it's a
bad insulator or just wet grass on the wire. I walk my fence
at night when I can hear the clicks and see the arcing.
Good luck!
Benjy
--
Benjy Cline, AC4XO
Virginia Tech Computing Center
benjy@benjy.cc.vt.edu
------------------------------
Date: 25 Feb 1994 15:40:49 GMT
From: mvb.saic.com!unogate!news.service.uci.edu!usc!howland.reston.ans.net!noc.near.net!jericho.mc.com!fugu!levine@network.ucsd.edu
Subject: FT530 dtmf decoding
To: info-hams@ucsd.edu
In article nvm@news.iastate.edu, jdwhite@iastate.edu (Jason White) writes:
-->In article <2ke7j9$d6u@news.iastate.edu>,
-->Steven M. Knapp <sknapp@iastate.edu> wrote:
-->>David Willmore <willmore@iastate.edu> wrote:
-->>>>DTMF Decoding
-->
-->.... 8< snip! ...
-->
-->>>Sorry, but it's in the manual. :) IMHO, the manual is very poor, but,
-->>>from the Icom manuals I have seen, well above par for the course.
-->>
-->>The manual says something about the last 3 DTMF digits being displayed
-->>in memory 7, but did not mention the fact that it scrolls! :)
-->>
-->>My old Icom manuals had more pictures and charts than my FT-530 book
-->>does. I liked that. The FT-530's manual is also incorrect in a few
-->>places, REALLY annoying. Oh well...still a good radio...
It is in the FT530 Manual on page 42 in the section labelled
"DTMF Monitoring"
How much clearer could it possibly be!
The FT530 manual is by far the nicest manual I have ever received
with an HT.
---
------------------------------------------------------------
|| // ||\\ //|| //\\ //\\
|| // || \\ // || // //
||// || \\ || // //
||\\ || || || \\ === \\ ===
|| \\ || // || \\ // \\ //
|| \\ || // || \\// \\//
---------------------------------------------------------FTAC
Bob Levine KD1GG 7J1AIS VK2GYN formerly KA1JFP
levine@mc.com <--Internet email Phone(508) 256-1300 x247
kd1gg@wa1phy.ma <--Packet Mail FAX(508) 256-3599
------------------------------------------------------------
------------------------------
Date: Thu, 24 Feb 1994 23:25:13 GMT
From: mvb.saic.com!unogate!news.service.uci.edu!usc!howland.reston.ans.net!europa.eng.gtefsd.com!news.umbc.edu!eff!news.kei.com!ub!newserve!sarah!rpi!psinntp!psinntp!arrl.org!zlau@network.
Subject: Low power Bird slugs
To: info-hams@ucsd.edu
groverc@gvgadg.gvg.tek.com wrote:
: Is there a Bird slug available that would do a credible job
: of measuring <5w signals in the range 3-30MHz?
None that are compatible with the Bird 43. We asked Bird and
were told that they couldn't even do a custom slug.
I suppose you could make an active slug, one that had an
amplifier built-in and powered by a battery. We get by with
attenuators and an HP wattmeter.
--
Zack Lau KH6CP/1 2 way QRP WAS
8 States on 10 GHz
Internet: zlau@arrl.org 10 grids on 2304 MHz
------------------------------
Date: 25 Feb 1994 15:44:55 GMT
From: mvb.saic.com!unogate!news.service.uci.edu!usc!sol.ctr.columbia.edu!news.cs.columbia.edu!mix-cs!popovich@network.ucsd.edu
Subject: Money grabbing SOB's at STD.COM (was Re: ftp for files)
To: info-hams@ucsd.edu
walt@diusys.cms.udel.edu (Walt Dabell) writes:
> I think it's a goddamn shame those cheap sons-a-bitches at std.com now
> want to charge us internetters for accessing their system! Anybody got
> any info on a system where there aren't a bunch of money-grabbing .com
> types running it?
Waitaminnit, I didn't see anything in Mr. Ehrlich's message about
"charg[ing] us internetters for accessing their system!" Did you read
a different message than the one I saw? It looked to me like he was
telling you about an anonymous FTP site on the Internet, namely
ftp.std.com. He was nice enough to tell you the exact pathname to
some ham files of interest. And for this, you bite his head off in a
netnews post? I didn't see anything about charging anyone money, as
if that were feasible through anonymous FTP. You really must have
seen a different message than the one I saw, or else you know
something that I don't know from reading the posts here.
-Steve, WB3I
------------------------------
Date: 25 Feb 1994 16:03:25 GMT
From: mvb.saic.com!unogate!news.service.uci.edu!usc!howland.reston.ans.net!wupost!udel!news.udel.edu!diusys.cms.udel.edu!walt@network.ucsd.edu
Subject: Money grabbing SOB's at STD.COM (was Re: ftp for files)
To: info-hams@ucsd.edu
Steve Popovich (popovich@prince.cs.columbia.edu) wrote:
: ftp.std.com. He was nice enough to tell you the exact pathname to
: some ham files of interest. And for this, you bite his head off in a
: netnews post? I didn't see anything about charging anyone money, as
: if that were feasible through anonymous FTP. You really must have
: seen a different message than the one I saw, or else you know
: something that I don't know from reading the posts here.
: -Steve, WB3I
OK, to be fair, I have a bad cold and am in a bad mood. This is what
I saw when I accessed ftp.std.com this morning. They may have a
problem with their system. I apologize _IF_ I jumped to the wrong
conclusion.
-----------included message-----------
diusys% ftp ftp.std.com
Connected to ftp.std.com.
220 ftp FTP server (Version wu-2.1c(1) Sun Feb 13 14:46:20 EST 1994) ready.
Name (ftp.std.com:walt): anonymous
331 Guest login ok, send your complete e-mail address as password.
Password:
230-
230-Hello!
230-
230-This is the anonymous FTP area for world.std.com, a public access Unix
230-system. Accounts directly on the system are available via telnet or
230-direct-dial (617-739-9753, 8N1, V.32bis (14.4K), V.32 (9600), 2400, etc.),
230-login as new (no password) to create an account. Accounts are charged
230-at $5/mo+$2/hr or $20/20hrs/month, your choice. Grab the details in
230-the world-info directory here if interested.
230-
230-
421 Service not available, remote server has closed connection
Login failed.
ftp> bye
--------end included message---------------
I read this to read if I wanted to use their system, I had to pay.
Maybe I R wrong. Won't be the first time.
--
________________________________________________________________
Walt Dabell KD3GS (302)645-4225 walt@diusys.cms.udel.edu
------------------------------
Date: 25 Feb 1994 16:29:01 GMT
From: mvb.saic.com!unogate!news.service.uci.edu!usc!sol.ctr.columbia.edu!news.cs.columbia.edu!mix-cs!popovich@network.ucsd.edu
Subject: Money grabbing SOB's at STD.COM (was Re: ftp for files)
To: info-hams@ucsd.edu
walt@diusys.cms.udel.edu (Walt Dabell) writes:
> OK, to be fair, I have a bad cold and am in a bad mood. This is what
> I saw when I accessed ftp.std.com this morning. They may have a
> problem with their system. I apologize _IF_ I jumped to the wrong
> conclusion.
> -----------included message-----------
>
> [Shows an anonymous FTP login apparently succeeding, but then being closed
> by the remote server before he can do anything]
>
> --------end included message---------------
> I read this to read if I wanted to use their system, I had to pay.
> Maybe I R wrong. Won't be the first time.
Looks like a bug, all right. You should probably report this to their
system maintainers. I don't know what login name they use for
catching their system-related mail; in the absence of further
information, something like postmaster@world.std.com would probably be
the best bet.
Take another look at a couple of lines in the login message:
> 230-at $5/mo+$2/hr or $20/20hrs/month, your choice. Grab the details in
> 230-the world-info directory here if interested.
If anonymous FTP doesn't work without paying, then how are you
supposed to grab the details if you think you might want to get an
account? It would be counter-productive for them to turn off
anonymous FTP. Oh, and isn't ftp.std.com also the FTP site for the
ARRL's ham info files?
-Steve, WB3I
------------------------------
Date: Fri, 25 Feb 1994 14:52:20 GMT
From: emba-news.uvm.edu!griffin!gdavis@uunet.uu.net
Subject: Nude Hamfests
To: info-hams@ucsd.edu
You all know that I support nude hamfests.
Now who can answer this one?
" Who is the most popular guy at a nude hamfest?"
Answer: (groan
Well... he's the one that can balance two HTs and five roles of number
14 wire.
Gary
--
******** Gary E. Davis***** WQ1F *****
The most common of all follies is to believe passionately in the
palpably not true. It is the chief occupation of mankind.-H.L.Mencken
------------------------------
Date: Fri, 25 Feb 1994 16:25:41 GMT
From: mvb.saic.com!unogate!news.service.uci.edu!usc!cs.utexas.edu!howland.reston.ans.net!europa.eng.gtefsd.com!library.ucla.edu!news.ucdavis.edu!chip.ucdavis.edu!ez006683@network.ucsd.edu
Subject: On-line Repeater Directory
To: info-hams@ucsd.edu
Jack Hamilton (jfh@netcom.com) wrote:
: The ARRL isn't a for-profit organization, and its purpose isn't to make
: money. They provide many free services, such as the reciprocal operating
: information, the file server, etc. They also distribute the net directory
: in electronic form. There may be good reasons for keeping the repeater
: directory under their control, but "we have to make money off of it" isn't
: one of them.
At $30 my dues don't pay all the $$ for the free services you are talking
about there. Where do you suppose it comes from? It comes from those
areas of the business that do make money for the league. There are some
things the league that cost them money, there are some things the league
does that they make money on. These things balance out, hopefully. You
can't expect each transaction the league makes to be a wash
: Perhaps they're working on their own electronic version?
I hope so! But I'll bet if we get together and pout our own out it would
be atleast as good, probably better.
Dan
--
*---------------------------------------------------------------------*
* Daniel D. Todd Packet: KC6UUD@KE6LW.#nocal.ca.usa *
* Internet: ddtodd@ucdavis.edu *
* Snail Mail: 1750 Hanover #102 *
* Davis CA 95616 *
*---------------------------------------------------------------------*
* All opinions expressed herein are completely ficticious any *
* resemblence to actual opinions of persons living or dead is *
* completely coincidental. *
*---------------------------------------------------------------------*
------------------------------
Date: Fri, 25 Feb 1994 16:18:43 GMT
From: mvb.saic.com!unogate!news.service.uci.edu!usc!cs.utexas.edu!howland.reston.ans.net!europa.eng.gtefsd.com!library.ucla.edu!news.ucdavis.edu!chip.ucdavis.edu!ez006683@network.ucsd.edu
Subject: online rpt idea
To: info-hams@ucsd.edu
Conway Yee (yee@mipg.upenn.edu) wrote:
: Tom Servo writes:
: #What about a different approach, one worthy of usenet? If there were
: #a newgroup called say, rec.radio.amateur.repeater dedicated to
: #providing assistance and information about repeaters, people would
: #provide info, ask questions, and somewhere, an archive site would
: #accumulate repeater listings. The whole process happens naturally
: #by itself, with no monitary interests involved (and no "leader"
: #to lynch :-).
: Not a bad idea at all except for one slight problem. The ftp site
: would be a point of vulnerability.
I don't see how the FTP site would be vulnerable unless it was suggested
somewhere that people just transcribe a piece of copyrighted material.
I will be happy to begin the posts with the local machines I use.
I don't know if there is really a need to start a new newsgroup. We could
just use a subject line begining with REPEATERS: or something. One
suggestion would be to break up the inforamtion in a different geographic
format. I really don't like trying to find a UHF repeater in So. Cal.
with the ARRL directory. This project could be much more accurate than
the ARRL directory because they only publish what they are given. If a
repeater owner wants to see his name in the book they can publish
incorrect PL's and increase the difficulty in accessing the machine. The
database could also be updated. Perhaps even a comment area for bringing
up public autopatches etc.
Dan
--
*---------------------------------------------------------------------*
* Daniel D. Todd Packet: KC6UUD@KE6LW.#nocal.ca.usa *
* Internet: ddtodd@ucdavis.edu *
* Snail Mail: 1750 Hanover #102 *
* Davis CA 95616 *
*---------------------------------------------------------------------*
* All opinions expressed herein are completely ficticious any *
* resemblence to actual opinions of persons living or dead is *
* completely coincidental. *
*---------------------------------------------------------------------*
------------------------------
Date: Thu, 24 Feb 1994 20:13:33 GMT
From: mvb.saic.com!unogate!news.service.uci.edu!usc!howland.reston.ans.net!news.intercon.com!panix!ddsw1!news.kei.com!ub!newserve!sarah!rpi!psinntp!psinntp!arrl.org!zlau@network.ucsd.edu
To: info-hams@ucsd.edu
References <1994Feb17.170309.4396@ke4zv.atl.ga.us>, <CLDxyq.K47@srgenprp.sr.hp.com>, <1994Feb18.172005.8942@ke4zv.atl.ga.us>dsw1
Subject : Re: Medium range point-to-point digital links
Gary Coffman (gary@ke4zv.atl.ga.us) wrote:
: In article <CLDxyq.K47@srgenprp.sr.hp.com> glenne@sad.hp.com (Glenn Elmore) writes:
: >Gary Coffman (gary@ke4zv.atl.ga.us) wrote:
: >
: >: M/Acom 10mw gunnplexer transceivers are available for on the order of
: >: $350 from SI, or raw gunnplexers can be found for $30-$70 on the surplus
: >: market. But you have to design an AFC system, and the high speed digital
: >: modulator/demodulators for them. Find dishes for them, and find line of
: >: sight paths for the links. Costs could be similar, around $1000 per
: >: link, but site selection would be much more restricted, and likely
: >: range as well (only a couple of miles for reasonable sized dishes
: >: and average terrain). Ten watts and 4 foot dishes can give 50+ mile
: >: paths at video bandwidths under good conditions, but that's serious money.
: >: It could be worth it for the higher throughput in some cases.
New Alpha Gunnplexers are $48.00 from SHF Parts 7102 W. 500 S. La Porte,
IN 46350. The used (checked out) ones are $25.00 each. These should
be fine for 1 MB/s links. For more bandwidth, you can get new ones with
varactor diodes (voltage tuning) for $66 each.
Dish antennas aren't as cheap as they used to be, almost doubling in
price. But at around $130 (including shipping) for a pair of new 2 ft
dishes, I'd say the costs are similar to that for VHF yagis.
: >Ten watts and a 4' dish can do a *lot* more than 50 miles under good
: >conditions, if by good you mean line-of-sight. In fact you wouldn't likely
: >be able to use that much C/N on a terrestrial link.
: >
: >A 4' antenna with typical feed efficiency is about 40 dBi at 10,250
: >MHz. Ten watts is +40 dBm; the combination gives +80 dBm ERP. If you
: >consider a video system with 6 MHz of bandwidth and that 45 dB of C/N
: >ratio gives "good quality" video, with a 3 dB sytem noise figure the
: >noise floor is about -103 dBm and you therefore want -58 dBm at the
: >receiver. The receive antenna gives another 40 dBi and you only need
: >-98 dBm (into an isotropic antenna) at the receiving site. So, you are
: >allowed +80-(-98)=178 dB of path loss. At 10.25 GHz this is over 1000
: >miles; a longer line-of-sight path than you'd be able to actually find
: >anywhere on the surface of the earth.
: Our experience with setting up ad hoc terrestrial links with our news
: vans is that the portables with 100 mw and 2 foot dishes shouldn't be
: counted on beyond 2 miles. A carefully engineered LOS path between two
: high sites does better, of course. We have one full time path at 24 GHz
: that is 7 miles. It was solid with 2 foot dishes except when it was raining
: hard, with 8 foot dishes it's solid even in the heaviest cloudbursts.
: Our longest engineered path is 50 miles, using a 6 foot dish at one
: end, and an 8 footer at the other, running 10 watts at 7 GHz, from a
: 1,000 foot tower to a 2370 foot mountain. Even that path fades in
: heavy rain.
Why not 10 watts? I've noticed 6 GHz 5W and 10 watt bricks showing
up on the surplus market. They have around 30 dB to 40 dB of
gain. I just got some PHEMT MMICs that sell for $8 each--one sample
showed a 2.5 dB NF with 15 dB of gain at 5.8 GHz.
: Note that over a perfectly smooth Earth, LOS is only 38.72 miles
: for a dish 1,000 feet HAAT. For the typical van mast, or ham tower,
: of 40 feet, LOS is only 7.745 miles. (Double those numbers for a
: grazing path to another site of the same HAAT.) When we add in real
: obstacles like 40-1000 foot buildings, 100 foot trees, etc, it gets much
: worse. And to avoid the first Fresnel zone, we need to clear an obstacle
: at the mid-point of the path by 30.96 feet. That's not going to happen
: even over smooth Earth at a distance greater than 3.87 miles with
: a 40 foot mast. So pure LOS is pretty much a mountaintop to mountaintop
: affair for longer distances.
I don't get this. Why not use buildings man made mountaintops?
Sure, often takes a bit of politics or $$$ to get them, but once
you manage that, I'd say that a nice rooftop is better than a
mountaintop of similar elevation. Usually, power and access are
much better. Another source of man made mountaintops are amateur
towers, particularly those of DX and contest types. Sometimes,
hams will let you put stuff on a tower, particularly if it doesn't
cause interference. Here, microwave gear can have its advantages.
(forget trying to put 20 meter stuff on an HF DXer's tower for
your digital link). As hams get older, they seem to be more
willing to let others climb their tower. Even some youngsters
will let you do their tower work :-).
: To summarize, if we could depend on having LOS paths, a 10 GHz system
: would be ideal, but in the real world we probably can't afford the
: number of hops that would require (except in special terrain cases
: like the California coast with it's mountains overlooking the population
: areas), and 219 MHz calculations seem to show it will suffice using
: troposcatter over the much longer paths we are likely to need in our
: rolling terrain.
Why do everything on one band? Consider a simple system
with two inputs and two outputs over very long paths.
If you had to do this on 219 MHz, I doubt you could
make both links full duplex at low cost. But, if you used
two bands, it becomes a much easier task. True, there are
economy of scale considerations. But, this usually doesn't
take into account factors like surplus parts, where small
numbers of goods are cheaper (till you buy enough to make
them scarce again). Thus, I can see hams buying surplus $20
to $50 microwave amps to build long distance links, while such
amps would be impossible to have mass produced at
low cost, even if every USA amateur were to buy one.
--
Zack Lau KH6CP/1 2 way QRP WAS
8 States on 10 GHz
Internet: zlau@arrl.org 10 grids on 2304 MHz
------------------------------
End of Info-Hams Digest V94 #210
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