Date: Fri, 12 Nov 93 19:37:56 PST
From: Info-Hams Mailing List and Newsgroup <info-hams@ucsd.edu>
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Subject: Info-Hams Digest V93 #1341
To: Info-Hams
Info-Hams Digest Fri, 12 Nov 93 Volume 93 : Issue 1341
Today's Topics:
* SpaceNews 15-Nov-93 *
Abbreviating Dates
Code software for the Mac?
Domestic QSL Strategies
Fun with Radio Shack
Help with Tempo S5 HT
Multiple YAGIS on mast
NMO Help
One Antenna Two
Poor audio fix for HTs
The League SUPPORTS Morse... - rec.radio.amateur.policy #6979 (2 msgs)
Send Replies or notes for publication to: <Info-Hams@UCSD.Edu>
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Problems you can't solve otherwise to brian@ucsd.edu.
Archives of past issues of the Info-Hams Digest are available
(by FTP only) from UCSD.Edu in directory "mailarchives/info-hams".
We trust that readers are intelligent enough to realize that all text
herein consists of personal comments and does not represent the official
policies or positions of any party. Your mileage may vary. So there.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Date: 12 Nov 93 14:34:36 GMT
From: news-mail-gateway@ucsd.edu
Subject: * SpaceNews 15-Nov-93 *
To: info-hams@ucsd.edu
SB NEWS @ AMSAT $SPC1115
* SpaceNews 15-Nov-93 *
BID: $SPC1115
=========
SpaceNews
=========
MONDAY NOVEMBER 15, 1993
SpaceNews originates at KD2BD in Wall Township, New Jersey, USA. It is
published every week and is made available for unlimited distribution.
* DOVE RECOVERY BEGUN *
=======================
The following is by Jim White, WD0E:
DOVE is up and running on 2 meters. It is sending normal ASCII telemetry
and short text bulletins on 145.825. A very quick look at telemetry
indicates the s/c is basically healthy.
The team of Bob Diersing, N5HAD, Bill McCaa, K0RZ, and myself have been
working very intensively for about 10 days to create and test new software
that allowed automated software loading via two meters in a half duplex mode.
This replaces the 'ear-ack on s-band' method N4HY had used in the past that
was so difficult as to be a barrier to recovery.
We would like to have telemetry reports. Please send them to vk7zbx@KO-23,
@ AO-16 or on internet vk7zbx@amsat.org or to me wd0e@amsat.org, or
CI$ 71477,546. The most recent version of TLMDCII (3-8-92) will decode
and record DOVE telemetry very nicely.
After we are sure the satellite is stable in this configuration and the
power targets are established, the next step will be to load up through
PHTX and test the voice module. Depending on the condition of the s/c
and other issue, this could take several weeks.
It'd like to express sincere thanks to Bob Diersing for all of his hard
work creating a RAM loader, and Bill McCaa for the many passes of s-band
and two meter receive he provided (often late into the night). It could
not have been done without their enthusiastic efforts.
Thanks also to Harold Price, NK6K, for providing the development system
hardware, software, and a good deal of coaching. His contribution was
invaluable.
Given a reasonably healthy s/c, I'm confident we can make DOVE talk as I
described at the AMSAT-NA Space Symposium in Dallas a few weeks ago.
Jim White
wd0e@amsat.org
[Story via PACSAT-OSCAR-16]
* PACSAT-OSCAR-16 STATUS *
==========================
PACSAT-1>AMSAT <UI>:
02 November 1993
Monthly WOD collection by week
1) Array currents 2)Temperatures 3)Bus/Battery
AO16 Command Team <WJ9F>
* WEBERSAT-OSCAR-18 NEWS *
==========================
WEBER-1>CAST <UI>:
06-NOV-93
*Collecting and Sending WOD
Week4: Temps & Impact Ch# 14 2F 30 35 3B 40
*New Images
*Monday, New Spectrum
I3/EA2CLS
* LUSAT-OSCAR-19 STATUS *
=========================
LUSAT-1>AMARG <UI>:
October 16.
BBS is open.
Directory Broadcast feature is available.
Use PB version 920430p.
Enjoy!.
LU8DYF, LO-19 command station.
* OSCAR 20 SCHEDULE CHANGE *
=============================
Effective December 1, 1993, the Fuji-OSCAR 20 satellite will change its
digital/analog operating schedule. At present, the satellite functions as
a packet BBS every day except Wednesday when it switches to the analog
transponder (CW/SSB) mode for approximately 24 hours.
Beginning December 1, at 0843 UTC, OSCAR 20 will be switched to the analog
mode (Mode JA) where it will remain for one week. On December 11, at 07:51
UTC, it will be switched back to the digital BBS mode (Mode JD) for one week.
The modes will continus to alternate on a weekly basis until further notice.
The December operating schedule is as follows:
Mode JA-Analog : 01-Dec-93 at 08:43 UTC through 08-Dec-93 at 07:16 UTC
Mode JD-Digital: 08-Dec-93 at 07:16 UTC through 15-Dec-93 at 07:41 UTC
Mode JA-Analog : 15-Dec-93 at 07:41 UTC through 22-Dec-93 at 08:05 UTC
Mode JD-Digital: 22-Dec-93 at 08:05 UTC through 29-Dec-93 at 08:30 UTC (+/-)
OSCAR 20 Frequencies:
Digital Uplink : 145.850, 145.870, 145.890, 145.910 MHz
Digital Downlink: 435.910 MHz
Analog Uplink : 145.900 to 146.000 MHz
Analog Downlink : 435.800 to 435.900 MHz
The analog transponder inverts uplinked signals. LSB on the uplink becomes
USB on the downlink. A signal in the lower portion of the uplink passband
appears in the upper portion of the downlink passband.
The decision to change the schedule was made by Toshiyuki Kondoh, JR1NVU,
who is in charge of FO-20 operations. By providing a full week of analog
transponder time, the OSCAR 20 command team hopes to encourage more hams to
use this mode.
The Japan Amateur Radio League offers a "Fuji Award" to any amateur making
at least 10 contacts via OSCAR-20 Mode JA. More details on this award will
be relayed as they become available from the JARL.
[Info from Fujio Yamashita, JS1UKR, via W1AW and the ARRL]
* AMSAT-OSCAR-21 STATUS *
=========================
RUDAK2>BEACON <UI C>:
++ Hi, this is the RUDAK-II experiment on AMSAT OSCAR 21 ++
RUDAK2>BEACON <UI C>:
***** New Modes ahead *****
* The current schedule is about to change *
* soon. New TX modes will be installed. *
* Stay tuned! 73 de RUDAK-Team *
* THANKS! *
===========
Thanks to all those who sent messages of appreciation regarding SpaceNews,
especially:
N3NCS ZS5FR AA6CK G6YPK NF6H F9ZY
* FEEDBACK/INPUT WELCOMED *
===========================
Mail to SpaceNews should be directed to the editor (John, KD2BD) via any
of the following paths:
FAX : 1-908-747-7107
PACKET : KD2BD @ N2KZH.NJ.USA.NA
INTERNET : kd2bd@ka2qhd.ocpt.ccur.com -or- kd2bd@amsat.org
MAIL : John A. Magliacane, KD2BD
Department of Engineering and Technology
Advanced Technology Center
Brookdale Community College
Lincroft, New Jersey 07738
U.S.A.
<<=- SpaceNews: The first amateur newsletter read in space! -=>>
/EX
--
John A. Magliacane, KD2BD * /\/\ * Voice : 1-908-224-2948
Advanced Technology Center |/\/\/\| Packet : KD2BD @ N2KZH.NJ.USA.NA
Brookdale Community College |\/\/\/| Internet: kd2bd@ka2qhd.ocpt.ccur.com
Lincroft, NJ 07738 * \/\/ * Morse : -.- -.. ..--- -... -..
------------------------------
Date: 12 Nov 93 23:39:35 GMT
From: news-mail-gateway@ucsd.edu
Subject: Abbreviating Dates
To: info-hams@ucsd.edu
The net has recently seen a bit of good-natured (?) joshing about who is out
of step on abbreviating dates... I've gone to the unassailable authority in
such matters, my MS-DOS User's Guide and Reference ......
Date in words: The fifteenth day of December in the year one thousand nine
hundred ninety three.
Abbreviated Countries where used
------------ ---------------------
12/15/1993 USA
15/12/1993 Belgium, Spain, Italy, United Kingdom, Brazil, International
English, Latin America
15.12.1993 Finland, France, Germany, Norway, Switzerland
15-12-1993 Denmark, Netherlands, Portugal
1993-12-15 Canada(French), Hungary, Yugoslavia, Czechoslovakia, Sweden,
Poland
Note: Doesn't Japan use something like the last format (above)?
It also seems to me that following is true...
19931215 American National Standards Institute (since it collates
directly without any special treatment).
Who's out of step?
73, Bob W3OTC
>>>>> Not a reflection of my employer's views, if any.
------------------------------
Date: Thu, 11 Nov 93 14:08:46 GMT
From: mnemosyne.cs.du.edu!nyx!jwiggins@uunet.uu.net
Subject: Code software for the Mac?
To: info-hams@ucsd.edu
Just passed my Technician exam (no license yet) and I want to prepare
for the code tests. I have a PC at work and have a fairly nice shareware
program for it (Super Morse). Are there any snazzier programs
available for the PC (free, share, or commercial)? I have a Mac at home
and would like to practice there (I really ought to be working at work!).
Does anyone know of any shareware or commercial programs that will teach
code on the Mac?
Thanks,
Joe
------------------------------
Date: 10 Nov 1993 08:21:11 -0500
From: noc.near.net!genrad.com!genrad.com!not-for-mail@uunet.uu.net
Subject: Domestic QSL Strategies
To: info-hams@ucsd.edu
In article <1993Nov10.022503.20167@ke4zv.atl.ga.us> gary@ke4zv.UUCP (Gary Coffman) writes:
>In article <Charles.R.Hohenstein.1-091193111547@oldmac14.debartolo.lab.nd.edu> Charles.R.Hohenstein.1@nd.edu (Charles R. Hohenstein) writes:
>>3. Suppose that an amateur doesn't even know that his call book address is
>>invalid. How can I or anyone else let him know, if the whole problem is
>>that the guy can't be reached? Maybe the League should share the last known
>>address for ARRL members, but that sounds like a lot of work.
>
>It also wouldn't be a popular idea with some League members. Divulging
>mailing lists is a sore point with some. They consider that confidential
>information. It wouldn't be surprising if a large number of amateurs didn't
>know whether their callbook address were correct or in error. Take me for
>example, I haven't bought a new callbook since 1967. I recently bought the
>SAM database, and my address is correct, but between 1968 and 1992 I have
>no idea whether the callbook was printing correct information or not.
This would almost definitely not be a popular idea. However, the fact of the
matter is, ARRL DOES in fact probably have the most up-to-date info available
for hams. How you ask? Simple. The Incoming QSL bureau sends foreign cards
to US hams. Where do they get their information?
Answer:
1. US Callbook (most recent one available)
2. Buckmaster
3. From the ham himself! Normally, the ham wants the
bureau to know where to send his foreign QSL cards.
4. From the US Postal Service! When the sorter sends out
cards to an invalid address, quite often, it will
get returned, but with a "forwarding address expired"
tag on it, WITH the new forwarding address!
How does this help us, the hams? Well, I believe ARRL sends this type of
information to the US Callbook so that the next edition is more up-to-date.
I KNOW I send the data to US Callbook (I'm one of those volunteer sorters).
And of course, ARRL has the data in their "database"....'course that
"database" may be spread out among 260 different individuals spread out over
the entire US....so that may not be too helpful.
:-)
Diana
The "1Y" sorter
--
->Diana L. (Syriac) Carlson dls@genrad.com Ham: KC1SP (Sweet Pea) <-
->I'D RATHER BE FLYING! P-ASEL, INST CAP: CPT, Freedom 690 Mobile<-
->AD ASTRA, PER ASPERA Airplane: None :-( <-
->GenRad, MS/6, 300 Baker Ave, Concord, Mass. 01742 (508)369-4400 x2459 <-
------------------------------
Date: 10 Nov 1993 06:01:48 -0700
From: orca.es.com!cnn.sim.es.com!ds9.sim.es.com!not-for-mail@uunet.uu.net
Subject: Fun with Radio Shack
To: info-hams@ucsd.edu
What about just using the $3 coupon for the catalog?
--
| Harrison Cooper | email : hcooper@javelin.sim.es.com |
| SP Hardware Design | Phone : 801-582-5847 ext 3275 |
| Evans & Sutherland Computer Corp. | Radio : N7KST 147.04 R, 145.49 R |
| Salt Lake City, Utah 84158 | Davis County ARES 147.42 S |
------------------------------
Date: 10 Nov 93 11:41:05 CST
From: library.ucla.edu!europa.eng.gtefsd.com!howland.reston.ans.net!vixen.cso.uiuc.edu!moe.ksu.ksu.edu!engr.uark.edu!news.ualr.edu!eivax.ualr.edu!heiss@network.ucsd.edu
Subject: Help with Tempo S5 HT
To: info-hams@ucsd.edu
Hello:
The wires on the speaker/mic connector came loose and I need to reattach
them. I have tried to work through the proper connections on my own but
have not been able to arrive at the correct solution. If anyone has the
schematic for the proper connection I would appreciate it very much. I
would also like to find a service manual for this Tempo S5.
Thanks Larry -- KC5CVL
------------------------------
Date: Thu, 11 Nov 1993 21:10:05 GMT
From: sdd.hp.com!vixen.cso.uiuc.edu!howland.reston.ans.net!darwin.sura.net!fconvx.ncifcrf.gov!fcs260c!mack@network.ucsd.edu
Subject: Multiple YAGIS on mast
To: info-hams@ucsd.edu
In article <CGC5GI.C9t@cdsmail.cdc.com> molson@bml4380.cpg.cdc.com (Mark Olson) writes:
>
>
> I've got a 2m and a 70cm Yagi on the same mast, both
>vertically polarized. I originally had them spaced ~15cm
>apart, and found that while the 2m had acceptable SWR,
>the 70cm had > 2:1 SWR at the frequencies I wanted to use.
>After fiddling around with the gamma match I found that
>no amount of tuning would reduce the SWR. So, I moved
>the antennas further apart, about 30cm, and now the
>SWR ranges between 1.5:1 and 1.9:1.
>
> I still have a feeling that the antennas are too close together.
>As I see it, I have two options: mount the antennas crosswise
>on the mast, which is undesirable, because I want them both
>pointing in the same direction, or to increase the spacing. This
>will cause me to use a longer mast or to have one antenna
>fairly close to the rotor, which might cause more problems.
>My question: is there a general rule of thumb for yagi separation
>distance, or is what I am doing a no-no?
>
>Thanks in advance for the advice,
>
>Mark Olson AA0MH
Dear Mark,
There is a rule of thumb (which I've forgotten) and one antenna
(can't remember whether smaller or larger) will see the other, but
not the reverse. Also a vertical yagi on the mast will see the mast
and be unhapy (the mathematical term for it). How about putting a
cross boom on the maast and putting but antennas on the horizontal
corss boom?
Joe Mack (NA3T)
mack@ncifcrf.gov
------------------------------
Date: Tue, 9 Nov 1993 22:08:40 GMT
From: cs.yale.edu!theodolite!ksmith@yale.arpa
Subject: NMO Help
To: info-hams@ucsd.edu
Yesterday I ordered two NMO mounts (Larsen) and 1/4 wave whips (2m/440, black,
Larsen) for my 1990 Isuzu Trooper since I've grown tired of mag-mounts and
am ready to bore holes.
Anything I should look out for? I've got a friend at the local county
communications shop who's agreed to help with the install, and his plan
is to use the Motorola bit without removing the headliner. The headliner is
a one piece deal that looks like it would be impossible to reinstall, so I'm
definately up for not removing it if at all possible. He seems to think he
can fish the cables from the holes in the roof.
I'm planning to take the cables down the column between the front and
rear passenger doors on the right side, fishing them out the bottom near the
seat belt retractor. Has anyone done this, and is there anything to watch out
for (dome light wiring, etc?)?
Post or reply via email, either is fine.
-Kirk J. Smith, KD6RCT
------------------------------
Date: 10 Nov 1993 08:36:37 -0500
From: swrinde!emory!europa.eng.gtefsd.com!howland.reston.ans.net!vixen.cso.uiuc.edu!sdd.hp.com!col.hp.com!srgenprp!news.dtc.hp.com!hplextra!hpscit.sc.hp.com!hpuerca.atl.hp.com!hpuerca!edh@
Subject: One Antenna Two
To: info-hams@ucsd.edu
In <2boi1r$6pr@vlsi.agcs.com> romanenkod@agcs.com (Dan Romanenko) writes:
>In the process of looking at dual band (2m/70cm) mobile radios, I have
>observed some radios come with one antenna lead for both bands,
It has a built in duplexor.
>1. From a two antenna lead, run separate coax, mount two single band
> antennas on the vehicle.
> Adv: - Each antenna tuned for a particular band
Also, you can optimise your antenna selection: I have used the
cross-band repeat function of my Alinco DR-590 on several occaisions
where I was close (relatively) to my truck, but the repeater being
used for the public service event was pretty far away. I left the
1/4 band 70cm antenna in place, but unscrewed the 2m antenna and
replaced in with a hefty gain antenna (that I don't like to drive
around with all the time because of its length). Used either my
IC-4AT or the 444 side of my DJ-580 for the input. Worked so well,
other hams along the route began using my "portable repeater" to
reach the net control too.
> Dis: - Two antennas on top of vehicle
> - Two coax runs required
I never felt like two coax runs was a disadvantage: my bet is that
I can loose half my antenna system and still be on the air!
>2. From a two antenna lead, run into a duplexer, run coax to dual band
> antenna.
> Adv: - Single antenna on vehicle
Okay, until something whacks it. :-)
> Dis:
Contrary to the nest statement, I found I could put up two good
antennas cheaper than I could buy a good dual-band antenna and
a good duplexor! These things are pricey items for equivilent
gain, design, quality, etc. compared to the single band ones.
>In pricing the two options, the cost for each setup would be
>about the same.
See my note above.
> Still waiting for my license...
Here's hoping your license comes soon -- 73
Ed Humphries N5RCK
HP Atlanta GA
------------------------------
Date: Wed, 10 Nov 93 21:54:29 EST
From: noc.near.net!news.delphi.com!usenet@uunet.uu.net
Subject: Poor audio fix for HTs
To: info-hams@ucsd.edu
Guillermo Gosset <gosset@pbr322.ceingebi.unam.MX> writes:
> A common complaint about the newer micro handhelds is the low volume audio.
> There is a fix to that problem, which I have applied to my Kenwood TH-78A.
> I use a CD Player-to-Cassette adapter (Radio Shack 12-1951), it plugs into
> the headphone jack of the HT and the adapter loads like a cassette into the
> car stereo system. With this setup one hears the HT audio amplified by the
> car stereo, so there is plenty of power available. Also it is possible to
> modify audio tone with the stereo controls.
I saw that thing in the Radio Shack catalog and I'm really curious to learn
how well it works. I'm afraid the blasted wire will get hung in the cassette
mechanism and ruin an otherwise perfectly good Kenwood car stereo. :-)
The cassettes slide in sideways in my Kenwood, then drop down into the
cassette mechanism. From the picture in the catalog, it appears the wire
comes out of the back of the cassette, which means it'll be halfway in
the cassette mechanism -- an invitation for disaster in my opinion.
-- Greg KE4DPX
------------------------------
Date: 13 Nov 93 01:03:32 GMT
From: paperboy.ids.net!anomaly.sbs.com!kd1hz@uunet.uu.net
Subject: The League SUPPORTS Morse... - rec.radio.amateur.policy #6979
To: info-hams@ucsd.edu
In article <2c0pugINNbgf@tonto.ksu.ksu.edu>,
cbr600@tonto.ksu.ksu.edu (Jeremy L. Utley) writes:
> Have you ever tried explaining to them that Amateur Radio has it's own set of
> operating practices, different from CB, and show them what those practices
> are???
Yup. The last one I mentioned this to told me to "fuck off". I was even
nice enough to call him on the phone instead of mentioning it on the air
where he might get offended.
Just goes to show you what the 'no-clue' license did in RI...
> And the No-Clue moniker is NOT appreciated, because to the ordinary reader
> of this
> group, it implies No-Code = No-Clue.
Oh well, that's their problem.
MD
--
-- Michael P. Deignan, KD1HZ -
-- Internet: kd1hz@anomaly.sbs.com - I never tell the truth, because I
-- UUCP: ...!uunet!anomaly!kd1hz - I don't believe that there is such
-- AT&TNet: 401-273-4669 - a thing...
------------------------------
Date: 13 Nov 93 03:03:38 GMT
From: ogicse!uwm.edu!msuinfo!pacific!cravitma@network.ucsd.edu
Subject: The League SUPPORTS Morse... - rec.radio.amateur.policy #6979
To: info-hams@ucsd.edu
In article <1993Nov13.010332.17160@anomaly.sbs.com> kd1hz@anomaly.sbs.com (Rev. Michael P. Deignan) writes:
>> And the No-Clue moniker is NOT appreciated, because to the ordinary reader
>> of this
>> group, it implies No-Code = No-Clue.
>
>Oh well, that's their problem.
I disagree, simply because it is not true. Also, you seem to imply
that No-Code = CBer, which is also incorrect.
/MC
--
Matthew Cravit | "So I sent him to ask of the
Michigan State University | owl, if he's there, how to
East Lansing, MI 48825 | loosen a jar from the nose
E-Mail: cravitma@cps.msu.edu | of a bear..."
------------------------------
Date: 12 Nov 1993 11:09:46 -0500
From: psinntp!satelnet.org!satelnet.org!usenet@uunet.uu.net
To: info-hams@ucsd.edu
References <VBREAULT.93Nov8111110@rinhp750.gmr.com>, <2bogl8$km0@oak.oakland.edu>, <VBREAULT.93Nov9134406@rinhp750.gmr.com>
Subject : Re: Fun with Radio Shack
Its not just the RS salesman. I was in RS the other day to return
something and I witnessed the most amazing thing.
A customer was talked into buying a $19.95 service policy on a $24.95
universal remote control. It took all of FIVE seconds for the sales pitch.
Maybe the droids aren't as dumb as we think.
Scott Pallack KJ4WT/ex-KB4TR/ex-WB9MTA/ex-WA2GLH/ex-WN2GLH
"You mean I qualify for QCWA? But I'm only 39. Scary, isn't it."
skybird@satelnet.org
------------------------------
Date: 10 Nov 1993 16:01:00 -0800
From: library.ucla.edu!europa.eng.gtefsd.com!howland.reston.ans.net!cs.utexas.edu!asuvax!chnews!ornews.intel.com!ornews.intel.com!not-for-mail@network.ucsd.edu
To: info-hams@ucsd.edu
References <CGA8n6.4q0@ryn.mro4.dec.com>, <CGAAr2.F14@ncifcrf.gov>, <CGArCy.77w@ryn.mro4.dec.com>ex
Subject : Re: Modify a TV antenna?
In article <CGArCy.77w@ryn.mro4.dec.com> randolph@est.enet.dec.com (Tom Randolph) writes:
>
>In article <CGAAr2.F14@ncifcrf.gov>, mack@fcs260c.ncifcrf.gov (Joe Mack) writes...
>>Assuming the point is to have a 2m antenna, rather than the object being
>>to modify an existing antenna, why not get a design (somewhere, ARRL handbook
>>if nowhere else), by the boom feedthroughs and brackets from say Rutland
>>Arrays (advertise in QST, Tom says he sells the hardware if you want it),
>>buy some 6061 Al tubing and rod from your local metal tubing supply
^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
Ha! Have you ever tried this? They are NOT interested in your puny order
and will let you know in no uncertain terms when you are quoted the cost of
a single rod or you are brought to understand their minimum order terms.
I was quoted $80 for a small tube as an example. I now buy all the busted
and broken antennas at swap meets for their metal.
>Yah, I think if I were to do it over, I'd just buy the tubing and build it.
>Drilling out all those rivets was a fair amount of work.
Well good luck finding the tubing. I can't see what's so terrible about using
the log periodic as-is. The Radium Shack VHF-UHF special should make a great
directional scanner antenna and will cover 6 meters to 222 Mhz as well I bet.
The challenge is to come up with a good broad banded match suitable for
transmitting. I wouldn't be beyond resorting to twin lead but how do you
match at the rig end? There are VHF antenna tunas and I suppose you could
wind a serious bifilar air balun somehow.
I was disappointed with a recent ham rag article that suggested complete
disassembly of a log periodic and reassembly into a classic yagi which had
non-optimum dimensions (just like the League books).
--
zardoz@ornews.intel.com WA7LDV
------------------------------
End of Info-Hams Digest V93 #1341
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