Date: Tue,  1 Mar 94 04:30:19 PST
From: Ham-Digital Mailing List and Newsgroup <ham-digital@ucsd.edu>
Errors-To: Ham-Digital-Errors@UCSD.Edu
Reply-To: Ham-Digital@UCSD.Edu
Precedence: Bulk
Subject: Ham-Digital Digest V94 #54
To: Ham-Digital


Ham-Digital Digest          Tue,  1 Mar 94       Volume 94 : Issue   54

Today's Topics:
                         EMAIL to mid-ocean?
                      Ham-Digital Digest V94 #53
                             Linux BBS ?
                            Need info ...
         Using packet radio to access an internet account...

Send Replies or notes for publication to: <Ham-Digital@UCSD.Edu>
Send subscription requests to: <Ham-Digital-REQUEST@UCSD.Edu>
Problems you can't solve otherwise to brian@ucsd.edu.

Archives of past issues of the Ham-Digital Digest are available 
(by FTP only) from UCSD.Edu in directory "mailarchives/ham-digital".

We trust that readers are intelligent enough to realize that all text
herein consists of personal comments and does not represent the official
policies or positions of any party.  Your mileage may vary.  So there.
----------------------------------------------------------------------

Date: Sun, 27 Feb 1994 14:44:00 +0000
From: ihnp4.ucsd.edu!agate!howland.reston.ans.net!gatech!udel!news.sprintlink.net!demon!nick01.demon.co.uk!nick@network.ucsd.edu
Subject: EMAIL to mid-ocean?
To: ham-digital@ucsd.edu

Hi,

I originally posted this to a defunct group, so here goes again...

Please forgive me if this is a stupid question - although I'm a communications
engineer, my knowledge of amateur radio is weak, and I will not be an
amateur until the end of this year (if I pass my exams).

The question: Members of my family live on a yacht, currently heading from
Costa Rica to Hawaii. The boat is small, and has limited power, and we are
already having trouble on HF receiving them (a ham in the North of England is
the current point of contact).

Now, I use EMAIL via Internet and X.25 every day, and it occurred to me that
this should not be impossible from a small boat (they already have a laptop).
They are obviously experienced hams, but have no knowledge of networks. I was
therefore wondering if there is a practical *cheap* ($100s, NOT $1000s) way
to enable EMAIL via their HF ICOM rig to Internet addresses, and vice versa.
The "network" would then provide the delivery mechanism, rather than trying to
rely on brute force (which we don't have).

Is this a daft idea? Have people done this before? Are there simpler ways
of achieving the same ends (apart from paper mail ;-)?

All thoughts are gratefully received. Thanks!

Nick  nick@nick01.demon.co.uk
PS. Please remember that I am not yet an qualified amateur, and my knowledge
of cryptic mnemonics will not match yours!

------------------------------

Date: 1 Mar 94 09:01:04 GMT
From: news-mail-gateway@ucsd.edu
Subject: Ham-Digital Digest V94 #53
To: ham-digital@ucsd.edu

> Subject: Get backe to kiss off mode in AEA PK-88 ?
> To: ham-digital@ucsd.edu
> 
> I am testing the version 920603 KA9Q. So I turn on the KISS mode
> under Telix program. But now How can I turn off the kiss mode ?
> 
> According to the PK-88 manual, section of KISS command.
> I need to return from command mode from host mode. How
> can I do that ?
> 
> Thanks for any pointer

Try this ...
Its a uu-encoded version of a self extracting archive containing a 
pair of batch files to switch a PK-88 to and from host/kiss.
I got it from a local bbs. It originates with AEA...


begin 777 hostki.com
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M0C# DG//C[K3/,CT-!HE4JD\4&MJ'/(#]M'[.6Q!TAL6;2^3-Q:3AG3K,2CL
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M0U['N[WRLNAIC!]&J(?T::H]#:I^*]?^2F[*?$RMZS],+<$"(KG7XK-/^JTQ
M:JKU> WHA'A@]DM<JF5]H\3$A:6!QB"S3$'DQ",0J=S$14S$F:34IB#[R8B%
M!F(U@S$[Z0H!B1$ Q) 28G,%D\"U8# 7QI6#\1,=W_)AGN/1C"XQ5GXBF([P
$O<<0 #$[
 
end

------------------------------

Date: 27 Feb 1994 14:03:51 GMT
From: ihnp4.ucsd.edu!agate!howland.reston.ans.net!math.ohio-state.edu!jussieu.fr!zaphod.crihan.fr!news.univ-rennes1.fr!news.univ-angers.fr!nospiment.ireste.fr!dbillon@network.ucsd.edu
Subject: Linux BBS ?
To: ham-digital@ucsd.edu

  I read recently a message from the UK concerning a new Ham BBS for Linux. Is
it available ? Where ?

  73, Damien, dbillon@nospiment.ireste.fr

------------------------------

Date: Sun, 27 Feb 1994 14:50:26 GMT
From: ihnp4.ucsd.edu!pacbell.com!sgiblab!swrinde!emory!wa4mei.ping.com!ke4zv!gary@network.ucsd.edu
Subject: Need info ...
To: ham-digital@ucsd.edu

In article <1994Feb26.192249.21936@gsusgi2.gsu.edu> fncgshx@gsusgi2.gsu.edu (Sumarpung H.) writes:
>I am a novice in packet radio.  I want to know more about setting up a 
>communication link using packet radio.  I've checked faq - doesn't help much.
>
>My friend lives about 50 km from my home.  His house is not connected by 
>a telephone line yet (telephone lines are scarce resources in my country).
>So using modem is out of the question.  We like to link our PCs using packet 
>radio instead; he has a call-sign anyway.
>My questions:
>
>- What's the feasible range of packet radio, and at what speed ?

Well there are probably a few hams who could punch a packet signal to
Mars if they tried. Certainly there are amateurs who routinely access
orbiting satellites via packet, and HF stations use the ionosphere to
bounce packet signals around the globe. However, most packet is either
line of sight at VHF/UHF or somewhat beyond line of sight via scatter
and knife edge refraction. Speeds vary wildly depending on the particular
modes and paths. HF is limited by regulation, and by propagation 
characteristics, to 300 baud. Satellite links are usually 9600 baud,
and terrestrial line of sight and near line of sight can vary from
1200 baud up to megabaud+ speeds at microwave. Unless you have good
height above average terrain at each end of your 50 km path, you'll
either need relay stations in between, or use a slower speed, say
56 kilobaud, with forward scatter propagation.

>- Is it possible for speed > 1200 bps ?   1200 bps seems too slow.  To 
>  transfer 120 kbytes file will take 20 minutes.

Longer than that in practice. In the first place, packet is normally
done on half duplex links, and AX25 is an ARQ protocol, so you can
send a maximum of 7 256 byte frames before you have to turn the link
around and wait for an acknowledgement. Link turnaround can take between
0.5 and 1.0 seconds with 1200 baud VHF rigs in common use. If there was 
a transmission error, you have to back up and resend everything after 
the error.

And if you need a relaying station, called a digi in amateur practice,
then each digi cuts your effective thruput in half because it has to
receive the entire packet, store it, and immediately retransmit it
to the next station. It can't receive while it's transmitting, so
you have to wait. After a couple of hops on a shared 1200 baud channel, 
your effective thruput drops to 10-15 baud. 

So you ideally want to run full duplex if you can, and do it on a 
non-contending low error rate channel with intelligent relay nodes 
that retransmit on an alternate frequency, called a trunk, so you 
can avoid the halving of thruput at each hop. And you want to run 
at the highest feasible baud for the paths you need. In practice 
that's generally 19.2 kb or 56 kb with current path lengths and 
equipment.

>- How much does a TNC cost ?

Prices vary from around $120 to over $400, depending on features,
for an external TNC. However, at higher baud you'll likely want
to use an internal PC buss card that can do direct DMA. The bottleneck
at higher speeds becomes the RS232 link between the external TNC and
the computer. An internal card like the Ottawa PI2 card runs about
$125, and can support speeds up to 56 kb (and perhaps beyond). PAD
functions are handled by host computer software.

>- Is TNC software controllable ?  I mean, if one frequency is 'noisy' 
>  then can TNC switch to other frequency automatically (programmable via 
>  PC) ?

TNCs are not radios. You need a radio to transmit and receive the packets.
TNCs are little computers, usually Z80 based, that do the PAD (Packet
Assembler Disassembler) function, do channel access control, and do flow
control to the host computer. They also usually have a built in low speed
modem, usually 300 and 1200 baud, that generates and decodes audio tones
that are sent over a voice grade radio that you supply. For higher speeds,
the voice grade radio won't suffice, and you need an external higher speed
modem. At 9600 baud, you can use a modem connected to the TNC modem disconnect
header fed into a modified voice radio. At higher speeds, you need an RF
modem that is a modem and radio in one that's designed specially for packet
service. At 19.2 kb, Kantronics makes the D4-10 for the 440 MHz band. At 56 kb,
GRAPES markets an MSK RF modem that needs a following transverter to convert 
it's 29 MHz output up to a UHF channel. At megabaud+ rates you'll have to
homebrew a microwave solution.

>- Some people use CB for longer range (voice).  But I think it is more noisy 
>  than FM.  Is CB suitable for packet radio ?

If you can find a quiet channel (good luck), AM CB rigs can work at 1200
or 2400 baud for short links of 15-30 km. The problem here is twofold. 
First, it's illegal in the USA, though it's OK in some other countries,
to transmit data on CB. Second is skip. Because of the frequency band on
which CB works, you'll be plagued by skip signals arriving via ionospheric
refraction from hundreds or thousands of miles away. These will interfere
with your packet transmissions. You're better off with a dedicated channel
such as some that are available at VHF/UHF/Microwave in the commercial and
amateur bands.

Gary

-- 
Gary Coffman KE4ZV          |    You make it,     | gatech!wa4mei!ke4zv!gary
Destructive Testing Systems |    we break it.     | uunet!rsiatl!ke4zv!gary
534 Shannon Way             |    Guaranteed!      | emory!kd4nc!ke4zv!gary 
Lawrenceville, GA 30244     |                     | 

------------------------------

Date: Sun, 27 Feb 94 19:48:20 GMT
From: mnemosyne.cs.du.edu!nyx10!wnelson@uunet.uu.net
Subject: Using packet radio to access an internet account...
To: ham-digital@ucsd.edu

In article <jfhCLuKBA.30D@netcom.com>, Jack Hamilton <jfh@netcom.com> wrote:
>wnelson@nyx10.cs.du.edu (W. Robert Nelson) wrote:
>>Is it possible to use packet radio, and a laptop computer to access the 
>>internet?  Are there gateways set up, or would it be possible to set them
>>up?
>
>There's a lot of stuff on the Internet that can't legally be sent over
>packet.  How do you plan to filter that out before you have a chance to
>look at it?

How about encoding it so that only I could read it?
--
W. Robert Nelson  (wnelson@nyx.cs.du.edu)

------------------------------

Date: Sun, 27 Feb 1994 21:31:09 GMT
From: ihnp4.ucsd.edu!library.ucla.edu!csulb.edu!csus.edu!netcom.com!jfh@network.ucsd.edu
To: ham-digital@ucsd.edu

References <1994Feb26.180036.8166@mnemosyne.cs.du.edu>, <jfhCLuKBA.30D@netcom.com>, <1994Feb27.194820.5062@mnemosyne.cs.du.edu>
Subject : Re: Using packet radio to access an internet account...

wnelson@nyx10.cs.du.edu (W. Robert Nelson) wrote:

>>There's a lot of stuff on the Internet that can't legally be sent over
>>packet.  How do you plan to filter that out before you have a chance to
>>look at it?
>
>How about encoding it so that only I could read it?

You also can't encrypt anything in amateur radio.  I've forgotten what the
exact wording is, and I'm too lazy to look it up, but basically if other
people can't understand it you aren't allowed to transmit it.  

-- 

------------------------------------------------------
Jack Hamilton      Postal: POB 281107 SF CA 94128  USA 
jfh@netcom.com     Packet: kd6ttl@w6pw.#nocal.ca.us.na 

------------------------------

Date: Sun, 27 Feb 1994 22:29:47 GMT
From: ihnp4.ucsd.edu!library.ucla.edu!news.ucdavis.edu!chip.ucdavis.edu!ez006683@network.ucsd.edu
To: ham-digital@ucsd.edu

References <jfhCLuKBA.30D@netcom.com>, <1994Feb27.194820.5062@mnemosyne.cs.du.edu>, <jfhCLwJry.Kvp@netcom.com>
Subject : Re: Using packet radio to access an internet account...

Jack Hamilton (jfh@netcom.com) wrote:
: wnelson@nyx10.cs.du.edu (W. Robert Nelson) wrote:

: >>There's a lot of stuff on the Internet that can't legally be sent over
: >>packet.  How do you plan to filter that out before you have a chance to
: >>look at it?
: >
: >How about encoding it so that only I could read it?

: You also can't encrypt anything in amateur radio.  I've forgotten what the
: exact wording is, and I'm too lazy to look it up, but basically if other
: people can't understand it you aren't allowed to transmit it.  

Your best bet would be to get your hands on a copy of part 97, these are 
the FCC regs relating to amateur radio.  i know they are on-line 
somewhere, try buffalo and ucsd if they aren't there drop me a line and 
I'll locate them for you.  it is also available from the ARRL in printed 
form, Any decent radio shop will have it. if you're even considering 
getting a license it is worth buying.

cheers,
Dan
--
*---------------------------------------------------------------------*
* Daniel D. Todd      Packet: KC6UUD@KE6LW.#nocal.ca.usa              *
*                   Internet: ddtodd@ucdavis.edu                      *
*                 Snail Mail: 1750 Hanover #102                       *
*                             Davis CA 95616                          *
*---------------------------------------------------------------------*
*  All opinions expressed herein are completely ficticious any        *
*  resemblence to actual opinions of persons living or dead is        *
*  completely coincidental.                                           * 
*---------------------------------------------------------------------*
      

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End of Ham-Digital Digest V94 #54
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